[00:00:00] Alexa: When you see an athlete, like, on the court, like, wearing, you know, full glam, like, that is, like, a maximum form of, like, self expression, and it also just, like it shows it show it proves the product performance as well. So you’ve got, like, a a diverse range of, like, like, self expression opportunity, um, and then kind of demonstrating that, but then also demonstrating, like, product efficacy.
[00:00:30] Phillip: Future Commerce is brought to you by bundle IQ. In today’s world, knowledge is power, and bundle IQ is your ultimate assistant to give you the power up you need to uncover insights. Find out more about how bundle IQ can streamline your research and analysis to help you build strategies and make decisions. Try bundleiq today@bundleiq.com. This episode of the Future Commerce Podcast is brought to you by Omnisend, the top rated email and SMS marketing platform for online merchants. If you’re ready to send campaigns that really sell, I want you to give Omnisend a try. Use the discount code future commerce to save 20% off the 1st 3 months. Go to omnisenddot com/futurecommerce for more. The Future Commerce Podcast is brought to you by Future Commerce Plus. Enjoy ad free episodes of the Future Commerce and Infinite Shelf podcasts and our limited run series Step by Step and Decoded when you join Future Commerce Plus. With the FC Plus membership, you’ll unlock a wealth of exclusive content and industry leading insights. Aside from ad free content, you’re going to get our bonus after dark episodes, and you’ll have priority invites to Vision’s Summit. Plus, you’re gonna get discount on print and merch and access to Alani, the private GPT that combines your data with future commerce insights. Join today at futurecommerce.com/plus. See around the next corner with a futurecommerce plus membership. Join today at futurecommerce.com/plus.
[00:02:09] Brian: Hello, and welcome to Future Commerce, the podcast at the intersection of culture and commerce. I’m Brian.
[00:02:15] Phillip: I’m Philip. Brian, I love that. You did the thing. You said future commerce instead of future commerce.
[00:02:20] Brian: I know you’d you’d, like, grounded in when we we rebranded as future commerce
[00:02:24] Phillip: A while back. Emphasis was on the wrong part for too long. We’re we’re Future Commerce, not Future Commerce. Um, I’m back in the chair. I’m I’m home. I’m in Florida. This is fantastic. And, um, I, you know, I spent a month in London, which was awesome. Uh, there’s this thing that I’ve oh, yeah. You it honestly, it was the greatest month ever. Uh, in that time, though, we didn’t slow down at all. We have, uh, like, an onslaught of content that we, uh, debuted and a bunch of new columns and things that happened over in future commerce.
[00:02:58] Brian: The London brief.
[00:03:00] Phillip: The London Brief digital media stuff and one of our closest friends and a long time collaborator. And I I was like, uh, I was thinking I was counting up this time. I think every month this year to some degree, uh, our friend Alexa Lombardo has been part of our content build in in, uh, just collaborating. So welcome. I I’m so excited to have, uh, on the podcast here. Now Alexa’s in London. I’m I’m not in London anymore, but, uh, I hope you’re keeping cool over there in the very warm summer climbs. Welcome back to the show, Alexa Lombardo.
[00:03:34] Alexa: Thank you. Thank you guys so much for having me. It was great to have you over here in London for a brief period of time. I enjoyed our our hang. And, no, it’s really, really hot, and there’s no AC. And, uh, pretty pretty brutal. Oh. Um, but I’m excited to be on, and it’s been so fun working and collaborating with you guys this year. And, uh, yeah, I’m just I’m looking forward to talking more about this this topic and, uh, also excited to introduce one of my closest friends and collaborators into the future commerce future commerce? I love it. Commerce future commerce fold, uh, Candice Stewart. Candace and I have been, uh, working together. We’ve been friends for for years now. We kind of dove down the web 3 rabbit hole at the same time. She works in innovation at a major sports league and is also a former team USA athlete. So she is uh, very, very well, uh, informed on on this topic that we’re gonna be chatting about today.
[00:04:41] Candace: Yeah. Alexa, thanks for introducing me. I feel like this is perfect. I feel like I’m being introduced to team. I can’t wait to get my jersey and. Welcome. So I
[00:04:52] Phillip: Love it. Team f c’s.
[00:04:53] Brian: I like that.
[00:04:54] Phillip: Yeah. Candace, you and you are Merch. Merch. Oh, and that’s what it’s all about. And we’ll talk a little bit about that too. Um, you know, Candice, you’re you’re probably have this, uh, perspective that very few people in the world have of, uh, the stage and the, uh, athleticism that’s on display right now at the Olympics. I’m sure that we’ll talk a little bit about that too. By the time this comes out, I think we’ll we’ll probably be winding down Olympics coverage in the United States. But is this, like, a really exciting time for you? Is this, uh, nostalgic in some way, maybe?
[00:05:25] Candace: Yeah. No. It’s super cool. Hamble’s playing. To me, I’d say it’s not playing, but it’s cool to watch emerging sports like rugby, currently, got a bronze medal. Team USA soccer, because former soccer player too, like, winning right now. So it’s, like, just a fun time to watch sports. And also, it’s just all collaborations, especially, like, seeing Fenty there and different beauty brands, which I’ve never seen before.
[00:05:48] Brian: One
[00:05:50] Phillip: One last question on that front, though. When when you are watching the narratives and sort of, like, the stories that unfold during, you know, broadcast Olympic coverage, um, how many of these names are, like, names that you’re very familiar with? How many of these athletes are people that are known to other athletes but are just not known to the general public until, you know, we have this sort of world stage.
[00:06:16] Candace: One thing, there’s women’s sports. There’s not a lot of women who are known in general. There’s Simone Biles is probably, like, the biggest name, um, who’s playing right now. Like, Alex Morgan wasn’t included on the roster for Team USA, which was huge because she is the, like, voice and and brand of Team USA in the past. So that’s another person that no one knows. A lot of them are emerging. Olympic sports are different too because it’s not all paid. Like, the people aren’t paid to be there. So they are going on their own dime. Um, they’re raising money. Like, there’s different, like, different things going on in Olympics that are not going on, like, the professional traditional sports world. So a lot of them are not known, so they’re making their name here. Like, you could see that with rugby in different sports.
[00:07:04] Alexa: From my point of view, it just I mean, there are some of some of these athletes who are creating such a, uh, such an amount of just, like, really stoking the conversation right now and creating so much buzz and energy, Alona Mar in particular. Right? She was super active in the last Olympics, but, like, right now, it’s just like there’s so much energy around it. And, like, I’m just thinking about, like, what’s next? Like, do we sustain this? Like, I hope that these athletes can continue to, like, grow their platform and not like, I hope we’re not gonna watch them. Like, you know, I I yeah. I would just love to see the energy sustain. And, like, I don’t know, Candice. Like, what’s your point of view on on that?
[00:07:49] Candace: Yeah. Anna Mar is super interesting. Like, uh, my friend played for team USA rugby. That’s also she was part of that team. So I’ve seen Elona Marr in general before she started her her actual social media presence, and you could see her grow very rapidly. But in, like, a niche space, because rugby was pretty much a niche sport, and then I think, like, her persistence, which shows a lot of athletes persistence matters, um, helped her grow to a point where everybody noticed, like, the Olympics. And Olympic is like, let’s use this athlete to show rugby and show the Olympics because she does it well. And that’s why Rihanna has grown, like, 3 x.
[00:08:31] Alexa: Yeah. It’s pretty amazing.
[00:08:33] Brian: Yeah. I think this is really interesting because you think about this, like, how brands treat, you know, their tentpole moments. Right? And you you think about, like, BFCM or Prime Day or maybe a big holiday, depending on what kind of brand you are. And that’s their moment to get out there and get in front of a whole new set of people. But a lot of brands miss the opportunity to follow-up on that and have a game plan for post big moment. And I think that, like, I think you you both of you are kind of touching on, like, how how hard it is to once you do get that new recognition, like, use that in, like and be able to sustain and grow based on that and figure out who’s gonna stick around, who is just there for the moment, and how to cultivate that. I think that’s huge. And that’s actually really apropos, I think, for today’s discussion, which is both of you just cowrote a a a piece for us called game face. Um, so, yeah, getting your face out there. Uh, how beauty brands are scoring big with women’s sports. And, um, you know, we think about Ilona Martin, you referenced her pretty heavily in the piece. Um, there’s a lot of opportunities right now for female athletes to have beauty brand partnerships, which could help them sustain that ongoing FaceTime with their fans. And so how you talk a little bit about this, uh, but I’d love to go deeper. How how are those relationships between beauty brands with female athletes different from traditional celebrity endorsements?
[00:10:11] Alexa: From my point of view, and we Candice and I were actually in Cannes together this year, and, uh, Stagwell did this really amazing activation called Sport Beach, and they brought a lot of female athletes there. Um, and I think, you know, we we talked about this a lot, and and and one of the speakers who was there was Alexis Ohanian, obviously, you know, married to one of or potentially the greatest female athlete of all time. And, you know, we was talking about how female athletes are just really they’re better storytellers, um, versus, you know, their male counterparts. But if you’re not, like, looking at them just like male female athletes versus male athletes, you’re looking at them in the kind of the whole realm of, like, of of influencers, right, or or even celebrities. Um, I think, you know, Candice pointed out something earlier whether it’s persistence or hard work or being self made. Like, there are these sort of, like, values that also are represented by athletes that I think set them apart from, like, potential, like, celebrities or or influencers that make people, like, feel, like, very, like, connected to them. They also have, like, this, like, built in, like I mean, they they’re cultivating a fan base.
[00:11:23] Alexa: Right? Like, a a very, like, avid fan base, and, like, they’re able to connect with them now, like, better on, you know, um, you know, either, uh, through their games and kind of on the field, but also on social media. It’s just like a very different kind of partner or or in like, if you wanna think of them as, like, an influencer just by virtue of them being an athlete. And then the female component just like, you know, because they because female athletes, uh, have traditionally not received as much, you know, media attention, they’ve had to build out their own social presence, and that has forced them to kind of become better storytellers and really talk about the other aspects of, like, their personal lives and their personalities. And that, again, makes them also, you know, able to connect more with their audience. And so when you’re when you’re looking at what everyone’s talking about right now in terms of choosing the right partners, it’s all about authenticity. It’s all about community and, like, really building a a connection, um, that doesn’t feel like it’s kind of paid. I think athletes and female athletes in particular are positioned to deliver on that a lot more, uh, effectively.
[00:12:38] Candace: Yeah. I I think to add to that is, like, just thinking of the archetype of a celebrity versus an athlete. Like, a celebrity, you’re not supposed to fail. Like, if you’re if you fail, there’s a PR around it. You have to figure out the story. But as an athlete, like, you play a sport, you’re going to fail. There’s gonna be bad days, and, like, that is part of your storyline. Um, so the idea of, like, growth and grit is part of what they do and, like, being authentic, like, you have to be. Uh, as a celebrity, you could or an influencer, you could create authenticity. Um, like so I think that’s an interesting thing to lean into for the athletes’ piece because it’s naturally part of them, and it makes them
[00:13:23] Alexa: More human and relatable. And there’s also this, like, almost, like, hero’s journey type of element to it. And I think, you know, influencers, like I was thinking about this actually yesterday as I was looking at, you know, much more closely a lot of the content that Alonimar once again, just because everyone is is so obsessed with her, so I’m, like, really looking at her a lot. I, you know, I I just think that, like, so many of the influences that that we look at, we’re, like, really envious, and we’re we’re almost like it’s kind of like we love to hate them. Like, do we even like them? Like, I’m not rooting for them. I’m jealous. Like, I’m like, that’s fake. Like, the the ideas that cross my mind like, I’m usually, like, rolling my eyes, you know, like, with an athlete and with an athlete that, like, you’re watching them out there. Like and I you’re right, Candice. Like, you’re you’re potentially watching them fail. You’re watching them experience, like, heartbreak. Right? Like and you’re seeing and so, like, you just you, like, you feel for them and you, like, you therefore, like, you’re rooting for them. You’re celebrating the wins with them and, like, you’re mourning the losses. And, like, that is not something that, you know, you have with, like, a an influencer. How you relate to them is very different.
[00:14:37] Phillip: The emotional difference and the distance between jealousy and envy. Right? Is, um, jealousy is, I wish I had that, and envy is, uh, they don’t deserve that, and I do. And I I think that there’s a a really fine line between the way that, like, these archetypes of influence to to use par borrow one of your phrases, Alexa, there is, uh, the way that influence has evolved online has become more of the of the, uh, we feel like we’re sharing in an experience, a parasocial relationship, and wanting to experience that shared feeling of success together, especially when you’re early to a relationship with a creator. And that’s where athletics has just such a natural tie. Right? Um, the getting feeling like you’re part of someone’s storyline, especially when you’re early on, has a much clearer line for the share of victory when you win. Um, but, Candace, let’s let’s talk a little bit about that. Uh, the way that that has evolved is that without commerce and, like, all roads lead back to commerce, especially at future commerce. But the without the commercial relationships, both with athletes and teams and sort of these spheres of influence where brands can be involved, There isn’t enough money or, uh, commercialization flowing into sports to create a virtuous cycle where more people are getting involved and more people are becoming part of the story. So let’s talk a little bit about that evolution and how that’s come about, um, because it used to be things like WNBA were sort of a, like, a sad punch line, but it’s become a main storyline now. So how how do we get there?
[00:16:19] Candace: Yeah. I think it’s a lot to do with storytelling. If we just take the Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese narrative right now and just talk to WNBA in specific, These 2 girls were playing in the March madness against each other year after year. Caitlin Clark being the top 3 point shooter, shooting ridiculous threes, like, outside of the normal, especially women, 3 point range, where, like, how is she doing that? And then Angel Reese being, like, phenomenal on the court and also personality off the court where you could have an opinion of her, um, made it, uh, like a story that could be told on social media. So between those 2, like, and being super competitive at March Madness and start drawing an audience made March Madness, NCAA pay attention to the storyline and being like, we could sell that. We probably can make more dollars around this. So they started leaning into it. ESPN started leaning into it. You could see the stories. Like, I used to look at at, like, Instagram and just scroll and say, like, how many women posts are here? Not many. But now you see it, like, literally every other post, there’s women posts around some athlete. So I think it had a lot to do with them saying, oh, this is marketable now because we see how these women are showing, uh, telling their stories. Um, and it’s just, uh, coming about. I don’t think women weren’t telling their stories before. I think it’s just, like, it was a good timing where Angel Reese is killing it on the court, uh, and also Caitlin Clark is killing it on the court, and now there’s a huge storyline about
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[00:18:44] Brian: I think this gets back to that authenticity, like, I that you mentioned earlier, Candace. Like, I think these are it’s almost like, um, you know, it it’s it’s a perfect vehicle for social and for commentary. When you have a story that is heated up between 2 people, uh, you know, or it just it and and it’s not in it’s not inauthentic. Like, there’s a lot of beefs out there that just feel made up or, like or or for no reason, but these are all, like, real interactions for good reasons that that are happening. And so I I do think that it it it it now is the time because it’s just it’s resonating. Um, it’s almost like sports were the original reality TV in many ways. Mhmm. And they they were the the best possible form of it, um, because there was good reason for the stories to be told. And, um, so, yeah, I think that’s super interesting. And and and how do you see it, like, so we we talked a little bit about media and the interaction with social media. Are you gonna how how are we gonna start to see the partnerships with brands start to play a role in this social story? Because I think that’s another really important part of this.
[00:20:04] Phillip: You said reality TV, and it got my mind thinking, Brian, about there are storylines in the WNBA that could never exist in the NBA as we know it today. Like, for instance, the the number of queer athletes and the relationships between them seems to be a thing that just could not exist in the NBA as we know it today. Um, Alyssa Thomas, Dwanna Bonner, these these are like names and relationships and storied sort of things that just exist on a totally different plane that doesn’t exist in men’s sports or is not as accepted in men’s sports. I’m I’m curious if you think that those sorts of things along with things that are inherently female centric and very cultural around, uh, female beauty, um, these are things that allow for a deeper and richer experience in athletics for women than could not just don’t exist, and and men have no analog.
[00:21:00] Candace: I think it first brings in a diverse more diverse audience base. Like, we in women’s sports, truly embrace the LGBTQ community, and they’re a huge part of growing the sport. And then, like, during the w, uh, the women’s game for the Olympics, Alex Cooper was doing the alt cast for them. And she brought on Tobin Heath and Kristen Press, and she asked them about their relationship. And, like, they told their story, which we’ve never heard them tell their story because, obviously, there is some taboo around it, and I think we’re figuring that out right now. Like, what does does that look like? Um, because, like, yes, that’s brings so much more authenticity and also so much more realness and and makes people wanna listen and watch and hear about what’s going on real like, realistically in a sport. And, yeah, in a in the men’s case, there’s just so many boundaries that they
[00:21:59] Phillip: Have to
[00:21:59] Candace: Cross to even get there. Um, so, yeah, it’s an interesting other piece that women’s sports could bring in, um, these type of stories that are relatable to a community that gets not included a lot of the time.
[00:22:13] Alexa: Yeah. But also, like, there’s like, you’re invested. Right? And I think, uh, you know, to to go back to an obvious example, like, you know, the surge in in, uh, and women watching the Super Bowl this year. Right? That, you know, because they’re invested in the relationship between, um, you know, Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift. Right? Like, there are a lot of stories like that that to get invested in in in women’s sports, and that’s because, like, they’re, again, it’s like a it’s like a cycle because they’re better at telling the stories, then, like, people get more invested and then more people tune in. And then so I think that is, uh, that’s something that, you know, be that that’s something that’s something unique, and I and I definitely think that there’s a vulnerability there that also inherently, you know, that there’s there’s no kind of I think that, like, to talk about, like, that being potentially, like, more taboo in in male sports or something, whereas in female sports, it’s more and and I don’t know. It’s like a very it’s a it’s a difficult subject to kind of, like, assess objectively, I should say. But I think, you know, that that type type of vulnerability and being able to to connect, um, is something that is is unique to women’s sports and, hopefully, is, you know, going to start to to shape, uh, all of sports, you know, because I think, again, like, there’s just the you’re seeing the results of of that, and you’re seeing how it’s actually creating more revenue opportunities as well as increasing, you know, viewership, etcetera, etcetera. So yeah.
[00:23:56] Candace: I think taking, like, relation like, taking, like, sexuality out of the play and talk about relationships. I like how Alexa kinda talked about Travis Kelce and and Taylor. Uh, there’s so many relationships in sports between athletes in general, like, just relationships between athletes, like, um, Mel Swanson. Mal Swanson is Danny, a MLB player. Simone Biles is Danny, a NFL player. Yep. And, like, the stories are more coming out on the women’s side because it’s I also think that, like, uh, we like to tell stories around relationships. Um, so and that’s, like, an important piece. So I I think that’s interesting too is, like, the relationship stories you’re seeing a lot come out through, um, especially on social media through this the lens of women.
[00:24:44] Phillip: I was blown away when I learned that Omnisend is trusted by more than 100,000 merchants that use Omnisend to grow online audience and sales. And that’s why Future Commerce is partnered with Omnisend, a top rated email and SMS marketing platform for online merchants. And we have secured for our audience an exclusive discount code to get you 20% off your 1st 3 months. So if you are ready to start building campaigns that really sell online and move the needle for your business, I want you to give Omnisend a try. Get 20% off for the 1st 3 months by going to omnisend.com/futurecommerce. Use the discount code futurecommerce for 20% off 3 months and start delivering campaigns that sell. Go to Omnisend dotcom/futurecommerce. Thanks to Omnisend for partnering with Future Commerce in 2024. Hey, Philip here. And if you’re hearing the sound of my voice right now, it’s it’s because you’re not yet a member of Future Commerce Plus. Why? Because you get ad free episodes of the Future Commerce and Infinite Shelf podcasts and limited run series like Decoded and Step by Step when you join the membership. Plus, you’re gonna get priority invites to our regional events like Future Commerce salons, dinner parties, and much, much more. Plus, you’re gonna be first in the door at our vision summit, and you’re gonna save a little bit of money on our annual journal and print and merch.
[00:26:11] Phillip: So why are you still waiting? Plus, if you need to sell it to your boss, guess what? You’re gonna get Alani bundled with Future Commerce. What is Alani? It is the private GPT that combines your data with Future Commerce’s insights. Imagine a platform that allows you to see around the next corner. You get all of this plus ad free episodes of the podcast and bonus after dark content for just $20 a month. Don’t just keep up with the industry. Get ahead of it. Subscribe to Future Commerce Plus. Become a member and become a futurist. Go to futurecommerce.com/plus today and join the membership. $20 a month to see around the next corner. How could you say no? Go to futurecommerce.com/plus and join the future. What about the, uh, are there inherent challenges, or or are there is there a future benefit to this idea of re resetting standards and traditional beauty standards around like, does sport give us the opportunity for athletes to help us recontextualize what beauty brands narratives would reinforce because, you know, when you’re working with a traditional celebrity, potentially like a movie star, you have one standard of beauty that you might be reinforcing. There’s something new that’s available, uh, to an athlete who might not fit into that traditional mold.
[00:27:48] Alexa: Yeah. I mean, I think, right, like, it also is not even so much about what they look like as much as, like, you know, the, uh, their what their body serves. Right? Like, they it it’s the strength. It’s the empowerment. It’s the the diligence. It’s the commitment. Right? Like, that is like an athlete’s body. Right? And so I think it’s more about, like, removing the conversation around, um, like, as from, like, a taking it from being just about aesthetics to, like, what beauty actually is. And I think, you know, so many of these beauty brands claim to stand for, like, empowerment, but when you’re using models or celebrities in your campaign, like, there’s no connection to to that necessarily. Like, certainly to be like, being an actor is there’s, you know, a craft associated with that. But I think an athlete right? Like, you look at an athlete and you look at their body and you look at what it enables them to do, and it’s just a much more, like, realistic like, it’s just a much more kind of tangible connection, uh, around that idea of, like, strength and empowerment. And and so I think for brand, it’s an opportunity to really, like, put your money where your mouth is. If you’re saying that you’re about empowerment, like, really, like, it’s a very obvious connection. Um, and so I think definitely, like, changing the like, moving away from, like, beauty being, like, an aesthetic thing to beauty being more of, you know, what it what what beauty actually is.
[00:29:23] Candace: Yeah. I think to add, like, me putting on the lens of a former athlete or just a girl growing up trying to figure out if I wanna wear makeup or whatever and, like, who am I looking at? Obviously, like, my first look is at athletes, and, like, there’s a range of women who don’t wear makeup to wearing whatever they wear. And and I think, like, right now, like, if you go on TikTok and stuff like that, you’ll see, like, the clean girl aesthetic, which is, like, a minimum loose look. And then you’ll see, like, the no makeup look, which is, like, tempted moisturizer and a little bit of, like, blush. And then you’ll see, like, a soft glam where they’re actually wearing makeup, and they might wear lipstick, and they might wear lashes. And those ones, you see a lot with athletes in general, where it’s like, you see the Angel Reese, she falls really kinda in the soft glam because she has, like, full lashes on. She might wear lipstick. And then Caitlin Clark, maybe no makeup look. Right? So it’s, like, different variety than than even, um, like, in the yeah. Just in different spaces, there’s just so many different athletes, and you could kind of figure out where they fit. And there is products that they use that make sense in general. Um, but, yeah, it’s harder to relate to a celebrity, um, as a, like, girl growing up like me.
[00:30:42] Alexa: But I think also the other thing that you it’s coming up for me, Candice, when you’re talking about that is that, like, makeup as a form of, like, self expression. And when you think about, like, traditionally right? Like, I think that a long time ago, there was this idea that if you’re working out, if you’re going to the gym, like, you’re not wearing wearing makeup. But, like, that’s just not true anymore. And when you see an athlete, like, on the court, like, wearing, you know, full glam, like, that is, like, a maximum form of, like, self expression. And it also just, like, it shows it show it proves the product performance as well. So I think that’s another thing too where there’s an added benefit of, like, you can see the product that’s being used and worn. And then on top of that, like, um, you’re, you know, you’re under, you know, pressure. You’re in in extreme conditions. You’re in you’re in heat. You’re exposed to sweat. But all these different things that also like, even if you’re wearing a minimal look, like, there’s probably something on your skin. So I think it also ties into being able to, like, really, like, sell the product benefits. So you’ve got, like, a a diverse range of, like, like, self expression opportunity, um, and then kind of demonstrating that, but then also demonstrating, like, product Um, and so I think for for no matter which girl you are, um, I think that that there’s, like, there’s some there’s someone that you can relate to there, um, and there’s some storyline that’ll that’ll fit with you. Because I think even if it is the no makeup girl, you’re like, wow. She wears that? That means, like, you know, like, that’s gonna work really well, um, because it’s, like, you know, under it’s being stress tested. Right? Like, these are extreme conditions. I think there’s, like, a lot of use based relationship too between between these women and the products that they’re using and the stories that they can tell. But, also, once again, is, like, another benefit to these brands partnering with them.
[00:32:37] Brian: Such a real like, phenomenal point about the, like, efficacy of the product because it’s such a great way to set yourself apart as a brand. Whenever you have more need, like, um, utility to your product, I think there it gives you opportunity to set yourself apart in other ways. And so it’s such a such an an incredible angle. Uh, I love that. I I also wanna get back to something, uh, around empowerment because I I feel like this is this is, um, it actually is tying together a couple of things. You’ve talked about this earlier, Philip, uh, about how some female leagues are, like, just getting going off the ground, and there’s still a lot of this going on, um, especially as we see emerging sports. Usually, a women’s league will follow shortly behind the men’s league or whatever. Um, and, actually, uh, I think of a major league indoor soccer, which just got released, and a relative of mine just got signed to a team. But the crazy and that’s actually not public yet. But the, uh, the craziest thing about this is they’re actually, uh, encouraged and expected to keep their full time job because there’s just not enough money in it yet. And so there’s there’s, like, a lot of pressure on them to both perform as athletes and support themselves in an in a normal career, and, like, that’s just that’s that’s pretty intense. And so I feel like there’s a huge opportunity right now, uh, in, um, female leagues in particular for brands to tell stories about empowerment because this could be a way that, um, a female athlete that isn’t getting paid what she deserves because there’s not enough eyeballs or attention yet And, like, cheerleaders too. This is another example. They like, they don’t even get paid. I was just talking to someone who was I think it was a Lakers or or I I like, I actually didn’t know that a lot of cheerleaders are they’re getting paid a pittance for what they do, and they’re running full time jobs as well. And that’s, like, that’s on me. I should have known that.
[00:34:52] Candace: No. No. No. I feel like a lot of people don’t know that. Like, I think the majority of, yeah, I, like, wish I could tell you the stat the stat of it, but, like, majority of athletes aren’t getting paid and are not getting paid well. I was just listening to the the guy who’s on the 3v3 men’s this is men’s side too. 3v3 USA men’s basketball team. He’s an engineer. Like, that’s what his full time job is, but he works remote so that he could travel, play basketball, and then also, uh, do a job that gives him money. Um, Olympic side, for sure. Like, most of those athletes are have a job, um, unless you’re literally, uh, on the men’s national basketball team or team USA soccer, like, the the most known sports. Um, even, like, rugby, they’re they have jobs. Like, these people aren’t getting paid, so they have to figure out. That’s and you talk about rugby, and that’s why they’re going towards content creating. Because to do rugby full time, they have to figure out ways to to play and also create money without not being able to play. Like, it’s it’s such a balance of, like, how do I maximize my time in my sport? That’s content creation, telling stories around your your actual day to day instead of trying not to work a full time job.
[00:36:12] Alexa: After the the women’s rugby team, uh, won the other day, I think it was once again coming always coming back to Ilona. Um, she, you know, was like, I hope this means more investment in the sport. And, uh, some a a woman saw that and and gave $4,000,000 just, like, you know, gave that to the sport. And I think that type of investment, like these types of right? Like, when you have a platform and there’s that many people watching you, it immediately puts pressure on people. But, also, like, you have a platform now, and so you actually can reach people. And I think that’s the the other reason why, um, you know, you’re seeing things. Right? These sports are really emotional, um, and I think, you know, beauty is too. And, like, that’s the other reason why these are like that’s like a a great combo. And, like, when you’ve got, like, an athlete telling a story and talking about your product, like, people are like you know, it’s really believable. There’s an emotional component when it comes to, like, the athlete that you support. And, you know, if they’re supporting a brand, like, you’re, you know, you’re getting that kind of emotional feeling too. And I I think that also is is a big component here is that type of, like, like, emotional emotionally driven decision making that, like, a lot of brands are struggling to cultivate that emotional connection with their with their customers right now and and and athletes and female athletes in particular can really can really help crack that for them.
[00:37:38] Candace: And I think, like, solution wise is, like, brands investing in the potential of these sports, deciding what sport sport they want to see grow, what sports they think are gonna grow, and putting their brand behind them before they’re huge. So it’s right now, it’s a perfect opportunity to go to rugby and say, hey. We would love to be a a league partner because that sport’s gonna grow in the US so substantially in the next couple of years.
[00:38:06] Brian: Which is awesome, by the way.
[00:38:07] Phillip: I think it’s awesome too. I think my mind is always gonna come back to the what does the what does the brand need to continue to find new markets, new opportunities, new growth? But I, I I’m sure that there’s somebody out there who feels like brands are commercializing. Like, they’re they’re over commercializing or this danger where they come in and and sort of co opt the growth or the the story of, uh, of a sport or maybe the the purity of a sport. Uh, are there, like, these types of criticisms that people feel like brands coming in could potentially create problems, um, because I’m sure I mean, that’s not my perspective. I think, generally, we we need a marketplace to see growth, and we need more people to have if you want a full time job, there’s gotta be commerce available in a marketplace of opportunity for people. So I think brands have a role to play. But what are some of the criticisms?
[00:39:07] Candace: You look at SKIMS by Kim Kardashian, and that’s, like, the case where people are arguing, does this belong for a partnership for NBA or WNBA? Does it make sense? But she’s done it right. She’s included the athletes. The athletes are centered of of that. And even she went over to the Olympics and and had a had a partnership with the Olympics, um, where she gave them all swimwear. She did it with the athletes, and the athletes told their story around it. Um, so I think you could say that Kim Kardashian’s brand normally wouldn’t be an athletic type brand, but she’s done it right. So I think that’s a playbook to look at.
[00:39:54] Alexa: Yeah. I mean, gosh. I kinda I love Kim Kardashian. I love the Kardashians. I think, like, they she like, they leave with authenticity. Her daughter, North, is really into the WNBA, like, super into sport. There is an authenticity piece there. I don’t think you could say they’re just seizing a commercial opportunity. Now crypto.com, like, uh, funding f one. Right? Like, crypto was actually, like, the number one sports sponsorships last year and the year before. And, like well, I don’t think actually last year because market wasn’t doing as well. But regardless, like, I think that’s where then you can, like, start to, like, really doubt. But, like, who’s gonna who who’s gonna benefit or rather who’s gonna suffer if you don’t have these companies that have all this money to invest somewhere? Like, why like, we’re we’re like, they’re gonna invest it into some place else. Like, why shouldn’t it be sports? And so I I don’t know. When you have so many sports desperate to be funded and to get, you know, more more fans and, like, more growth, like, I don’t I don’t see why that’s, uh, I don’t really see why that’s a bad thing. Um, but I also just think, like, they’re we’re gonna like, sports are just, like, pending right now.
[00:41:16] Alexa: Right? Like, even just when you think about, like, what’s going on with, like, you know, obviously, pickleball is huge, but now you’re seeing instead of, like, there was a surge in member’s club, but now we’re seeing that evolve to kind of, like, the new country club. Right? People are starved for, like, social activities. Like, they’re starved for connection. Dating apps aren’t working, so they’re doing things in groups. Sports are, like, part of that, and I think we’re just gonna continue to see sports grow. And, like, there’s a natural fit for brands to to come in there and, like, be there. Right? Like, when you’re going to play a sport, you’re also gonna be potentially, like, having a drink, or you’re also gonna be wearing an outfit, or you’re also gonna whatever you’re doing, like, you’re using brands. And so I think that there is, like, a there there’s synergy there no matter what. Even if it is for just the shrewdest of business opportunities, I think it’s good for it it’s it’s good for these sports to to get investment from from brands.
[00:42:13] Candace: Yeah. And and the learning opportunity in general. It’s like implement, change, implement, change. Like, they’re they’re trying to make it work. I don’t think brands are doing this being like, we’ll get the money, but we also want our fans to be interested. So just the opportunity to implement that and then change it.
[00:42:29] Brian: Yeah. What what are the 2 of you I would love to hear this from both of you, but, like, what would be a dream collab between a female athlete and a and a brand? Uh, it doesn’t necessarily have to be beauty, but, um, that’d be be interested. Or or or even just, like, what’s a really good opportunity that you see?
[00:42:44] Candace: So one of the basketball is so awesome because a lot of them wear lashes. And I always look at them, and I’m like, how do you keep those lashes on? So, like, a lash brand or a big brand clabbering and talking through lashes and how they do this and what they’re wearing would be awesome, in my opinion. I think that’s, like, such an opportunity of for lashes in general. So I said it first, so when I do it. Marta is a woman’s soccer player for Brazil. She wears lipstick. I’m not sure if it’s sponsored or not. I’ve never heard of the sponsor, but it never comes off. Um, the the lipstick is perfect all the time. And just, like, average day woman wearing lipstick for a couple hours, it’s gone. But she plays a whole soccer game with lipstick on, so, like, seeing her partner with a lipstick brand would be super cool. Um, and then there’s, like, basic ones where it’s, like, we need, um, sunscreen. And just Yeah. It’s really super simple. It’s just take the athlete where they’re at, what they do, and partner with them based on those things. Like, the pregame routines of, like, you know, the trend on TikTok is get ready with me, Get ready with athletes and look through their product and and partner with them with some of the products they have. Yeah.
[00:43:57] Alexa: That’s what I have to say. I don’t think there’s, like, some, like, silver bullet or some type of, like, really, like, novel partnership. It’s literally, like, what are the, like, already natural, like, where is the natural fit? Um, and I think there’s already, like, so much of it. I think brands just, like, try to, like, contrive so much or their agencies try to contrive so much when, really, it can be, like, quite quite simple. So I think, like, brands thinking about how they can fit into the lives of these athletes and because when you look at the stories that they’re often telling, a lot of the ones that are getting, like, the highest engagement, like, aren’t even when they’re playing their sport that they’re playing. Like, um, and I think the other thing about, like, female athletes is, like, a lot of them are, like, also, like, moms. And so I think that there’s just, like, some other really, like, interesting potential potential plays there. I don’t think sports were ever gone, but I definitely think they’re more buzzy in pop culture now than ever. If the average person is both watching now and playing sports more, like, okay, then, like, what it’s like a lifestyle thing. And so, like, what are the other, like, lifestyle elements and lifestyle, like like, brand, uh, or products that you can, like, integrate? I think that natural integration is is like, there’s a big opportunity for that.
[00:45:16] Phillip: Well, the natural integration is probably why we have so many Sky Rizzi ads right now. So I’m I’m happy to to see it grow from there, although those things are a natural part of life too. Uh, so great. And thank you for thinking about the future of commerce implications in, uh, in in in this area. I can’t wait for, uh, another collaboration, Candice, uh, with you and Alexa. It’s been great to have, uh, just your your thoughts, your, um, your expertise, uh, put in front of our audience is just such a privilege. Thank you so much.
[00:45:52] Alexa: Thank you,
[00:45:53] Candace: Guys. Yeah. Thank you. Excited.
[00:45:56] Phillip: Yeah. Uh, and thank you all for listening. Uh, this episode of Future Commerce obviously is not able to be, uh, created without our partnership with our plus members. So if you do want to support Future Commerce, you wanna support us, we love our ad partners, but you can get out free episodes of this podcast and more, including, uh, our member briefings and bonus content. You get it all at futurecommerce.com/plus. Thank you for listening to this episode of Future Commerce.
[00:46:23] Brian: Wake up every morning at a quarter to 10. Like, am I dying? Is this real alright? It’s this again. I’m awoken by my daughter, and she jumps in my bed. I’m only
