{"id":15944,"date":"2025-09-17T10:44:22","date_gmt":"2025-09-17T10:44:22","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/what-it-takes-for-a-mall-to-be-evergreen\/"},"modified":"2025-09-17T10:44:22","modified_gmt":"2025-09-17T10:44:22","slug":"what-it-takes-for-a-mall-to-be-evergreen","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/what-it-takes-for-a-mall-to-be-evergreen\/","title":{"rendered":"What it takes for a mall to be \u2018evergreen\u2019"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> <p><a href=\"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/online-workshops-list\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-496\" src=\"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/RETAIL-ONLINE-TRAINING-728-X-90.png\" alt=\"Retail Online Training\" width=\"729\" height=\"91\" srcset=\"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/RETAIL-ONLINE-TRAINING-728-X-90.png 729w, https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/RETAIL-ONLINE-TRAINING-728-X-90-300x37.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 729px) 100vw, 729px\" \/><\/a><\/p><br \/>\n<\/p>\n<div>\n<div class=\"text-to-speech\">\n    <button class=\"text-to-speech__button button\"><br \/>\n        <img decoding=\"async\" class=\"text-to-speech__button__icon\" src=\"https:\/\/www.retaildive.com\/static\/img\/play.svg?500116090725\" alt=\"\"\/><br \/>\n        Listen to the article<br \/>\n        <span class=\"text-to-speech__button__audio-length\">7 min<\/span><br \/>\n    <\/button><\/p>\n<div class=\"text-to-speech__controls\">\n        <audio controls=\"\" class=\"js-text-to-speech\" preload=\"none\"><source src=\"https:\/\/res.cloudinary.com\/dmgi9movl\/video\/upload\/q_1\/v1757710692\/news\/text_to_speech\/evergreen-mall-real-estate-shopping-center-investment_i6ztbl.wav\" type=\"audio\/mp3\"><\/source><\/audio><\/p>\n<div class=\"text-to-speech__controls__text\">\n            This audio is auto-generated. Please let us know if you have feedback.\n        <\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>There\u2019s no doubt that the hey-day of the mall \u2014 the sprawling enclosed center anchored by department stores that thrived for decades in the 20th century \u2014 is over.<\/p>\n<p>But is the American mall dead? Or is it evergreen?<\/p>\n<p>\u201cOver the years as enclosed malls have evolved, it turns out that the A malls are doing extremely well, and C and D malls are accelerating to extinction,\u201d said Chris Conlon, CEO of WPG, formerly known as Washington Prime Group. \u201cWe&#8217;re speaking about B malls, and we&#8217;re speaking about B malls that can be identified such that they&#8217;re not becoming C or D malls. In other words, maybe they have a reason to exist.\u201d<\/p>\n<div class=\"pullquote\">\n<hr\/>\n<div class=\"pq-hr-wrapper\">\n<p class=\"pq-quote\">&#8220;As enclosed malls have evolved, it turns out that the A malls are doing extremely well, and C and D malls are accelerating to extinction. We&#8217;re speaking about B malls &#8230; maybe they have a reason to exist.&#8221;<\/p>\n<div class=\"pq-headshot\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"\" class=\"pq-headshot-img-hidden\" src=\"https:\/\/d12v9rtnomnebu.cloudfront.net\/diveimages\/corporate_site\/teampage\/square_profiles\/placeholder-200.png\"\/><\/div>\n<div class=\"pq-speaker-details\">\n<p class=\"pq-speaker\">Chris Conlon<\/p>\n<p class=\"pq-speaker-title\">CEO of WPG, formerly known as Washington Prime Group<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<hr\/>\n<\/div>\n<p>That\u2019s the idea behind \u201cevergreen malls,\u201d a concept outside of the industry-accepted A to D rating scale developed by Green Street years ago. According to Green Street Vice President of Advisory Services Jake Bracken, terms like \u201cevergreen\u201d and \u201cnon-core\u201d editorialize a bit beyond those ratings, in order to describe gray areas. They haven\u2019t solidified as terms of art and aren\u2019t generally employed in Green Street\u2019s research, he said by video conference.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe evergreen mall is largely considered a stable or performing mall in its market environment, while the non-core mall is the mall that&#8217;s struggling, and probably headed for foreclosure or repurposing,\u201d Bracken said, noting that A or B malls could be evergreen.<\/p>\n<h3 class=\"standard-heading\">The criteria<\/h3>\n<p>Conlon uses \u201cevergreen\u201d to describe malls that will last without evolving much, if at all, and, to him, they are strictly B malls. In fact, according to Conlon, it\u2019s foolish to put much money into an evergreen mall, because spiffing it up wouldn\u2019t draw more traffic or sales. Aside from keeping the interior and parking lot clean and safe and the HVAC functioning well, these centers\u2019 productivity comes from being left alone.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cSometimes our malls feel like a time machine because they haven&#8217;t received the same investment that an A mall would, nor would they benefit from the investment like an A mall would, because it&#8217;s fine where it is,\u201d Conlon said by video conference. \u201cIts net operating income is sustainable and it is durable.\u201d<\/p>\n<div class=\"pullquote\">\n<hr\/>\n<div class=\"pq-hr-wrapper\">\n<p class=\"pq-quote\">\u201cSometimes our malls feel like a time machine.&#8221;<\/p>\n<div class=\"pq-headshot\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"\" class=\"pq-headshot-img-hidden\" src=\"https:\/\/d12v9rtnomnebu.cloudfront.net\/diveimages\/corporate_site\/teampage\/square_profiles\/placeholder-200.png\"\/><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<hr\/>\n<\/div>\n<p>The word \u201cevergreen\u201d was a replacement for \u201csurvivor,\u201d which Conlon said he saw as overly negative. He has a clear-cut set of criteria that makes a mall evergreen:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<p>It\u2019s the best in town or the only game in town<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>It\u2019s in a secondary or tertiary geography versus a major city<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>It doesn\u2019t produce sales above $700 per square foot, but sales are steady and in some cases growing, even though foot traffic is generally flat relative to 2019 (pre-pandemic)<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>The rent-to-sales ratio among tenants is 12% or less, meaning those retailers are all making money and are healthy<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>Overall occupancy in the low- to mid-90% and permanent occupancy (year-plus leases) in the low- to mid-80%<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>Rents and net operating income growth trend of 1% to 3%<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<li>\n<p>It has stable anchors that include almost any Dillard\u2019s, a healthy J.C. Penney or a Macy\u2019s that is not on the closing list<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>This is, ultimately, a sales pitch. WPG, owned by private equity firm SVP Global since emerging from bankruptcy in 2021, is selling all of its assets, which include the portfolio of what Conlon calls evergreen malls and another of higher-end open-air centers. The company, which previously unloaded its non-core malls, declined to specify how many properties have sold and how many are still on the market.<\/p>\n<div class=\"pullquote\">\n<hr\/>\n<div class=\"pq-hr-wrapper\">\n<p class=\"pq-quote\">&#8220;Malls tend to fall into two camps \u2014 they\u2019re either dying, or they\u2019re thriving and sustaining with vibrancy. But there is a slice in between that I\u2019d describe as B-plus malls.&#8221;<\/p>\n<div class=\"pq-headshot\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"\" class=\"pq-headshot-img-hidden\" src=\"https:\/\/d12v9rtnomnebu.cloudfront.net\/diveimages\/corporate_site\/teampage\/square_profiles\/placeholder-200.png\"\/><\/div>\n<div class=\"pq-speaker-details\">\n<p class=\"pq-speaker\">Bryn Feller<\/p>\n<p class=\"pq-speaker-title\">Managing Director &amp; Senior Vice President of Northmarq<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<hr\/>\n<\/div>\n<p>For others in the industry, the term \u201cevergreen\u201d is less specific.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cIn my view, malls tend to fall into two camps \u2014 they\u2019re either dying, or they\u2019re thriving and sustaining with vibrancy,\u201d said Bryn Feller, managing director and senior vice president at commercial real estate firm Northmarq. \u201cBut there is a slice in between that I\u2019d describe as B-plus malls. These aren\u2019t the trophy centers like Oakbrook or Bal Harbour, but they\u2019re not dying either. They have enough critical mass to remain sticky for maybe a decade or longer. That\u2019s what people mean by \u2018evergreen.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<h3 class=\"standard-heading\">Renewed interest<\/h3>\n<p>The notion that a middle-of-the-road mall has longevity is also backed up by the recent attention \u2014 and investment \u2014 that B malls are attracting these days. Just this year, Dillard\u2019s took a stake in a mall in eastern Texas, Walmart acquired a mall in Pittsburgh and Simon Property Group said it will begin fixing up some of its B malls in a quest for growth. In the past, Simon CEO David Simon rarely if ever talked about the B malls in the REIT\u2019s portfolio, Conlon said.<\/p>\n<div class=\"pullquote\">\n<hr\/>\n<div class=\"pq-hr-wrapper\">\n<p class=\"pq-quote\">&#8220;With the strong recovery in retail post-Covid, we are seeing some of these malls regain some life.\u201d<\/p>\n<div class=\"pq-headshot\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"\" class=\"pq-headshot-img-hidden\" src=\"https:\/\/d12v9rtnomnebu.cloudfront.net\/diveimages\/corporate_site\/teampage\/square_profiles\/placeholder-200.png\"\/><\/div>\n<div class=\"pq-speaker-details\">\n<p class=\"pq-speaker\">Jake Bracken<\/p>\n<p class=\"pq-speaker-title\">Vice President of Advisory Services at Green Street<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<hr\/>\n<\/div>\n<p>\u201cIt was interesting to hear David start to talk about his B malls, and acknowledge that he owns some and that he&#8217;s willing to invest in them,\u201d Conlon said. \u201cThat means he understands that their decline has flattened, and now there&#8217;s some growth and they&#8217;re investable. \u2018I should put money into them. I should pay more attention to them. These are going to be around forever.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This second look is part of retail\u2019s post-pandemic rally, though malls\u2019 prospects vary, according to Green Street\u2019s Bracken.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cEach mall is very different and very intertwined with the community, and a specific mall in a specific market may or may not work in another market,\u201d he said. \u201cAt the core of the evergreen analysis is \u2014 there are these malls which may have been struggling for the past years, and there were questions about their long-term outlook. But with the strong recovery in retail post-Covid, we are seeing some of these malls regain some life.\u201d<\/p>\n<section class=\"storylines-carousel-wrapper hide-small show-large\" id=\"desktop-carousel\"\/>\n<h3 class=\"standard-heading\">The prospects<\/h3>\n<p>Forever, though? Maybe not. Malls that may seem evergreen are quite vulnerable, analysts say.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe real test of an evergreen mall is what happens when legacy anchors like J.C. Penney \u2014 and eventually Macy\u2019s \u2014 depart,\u201d Feller said. \u201cThere aren\u2019t obvious department stores waiting to take those boxes. So the question becomes: Can they attract a new type of anchor? Maybe a Dick\u2019s House of Sport, maybe a grocer, or some other experiential concept? If they can, they can hold onto that evergreen status. If not, it\u2019s very difficult to sustain.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Nick Egelanian, president of retail development firm SiteWorks, is even less sanguine.<\/p>\n<div class=\"pullquote\">\n<hr\/>\n<div class=\"pq-hr-wrapper\">\n<p class=\"pq-quote\">\u201cDo I believe in the idea of evergreen malls? No. Not without approaching each property to determine what its highest and best uses are, and then investing the money.&#8221;<\/p>\n<div class=\"pq-headshot\"><img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"\" class=\"pq-headshot-img-hidden\" src=\"https:\/\/d12v9rtnomnebu.cloudfront.net\/diveimages\/corporate_site\/teampage\/square_profiles\/placeholder-200.png\"\/><\/div>\n<div class=\"pq-speaker-details\">\n<p class=\"pq-speaker\">Nick Egelanian<\/p>\n<p class=\"pq-speaker-title\">President of SiteWorks<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<hr\/>\n<\/div>\n<p>\u201cDo I believe in the idea of evergreen malls? No. Not without approaching each property to determine what its highest and best uses are, and then investing the money to bring it to that,\u201d he said by phone. \u201cThe model, the mall model itself, really does not work any longer. Now, that doesn&#8217;t mean that some of the properties aren&#8217;t hanging on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Even those, though, could easily be devastated if a new development were to come to town, he said.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWhen someone comes along and does something better, Apple and Sephora and the others will move because they don&#8217;t want to be in with a lot of stupid stores,\u201d he said. \u201cSo either someone buys it and makes it the dominant mall \u2014 that nobody can take out \u2014 or someone else takes it out eventually. Malls don&#8217;t stay mediocre and survive forever, except in mediocre markets.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p><p><a href=\"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/online-workshops-list\/\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-496\" src=\"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/RETAIL-ONLINE-TRAINING-728-X-90.png\" alt=\"Retail Online Training\" width=\"729\" height=\"91\" srcset=\"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/RETAIL-ONLINE-TRAINING-728-X-90.png 729w, https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/RETAIL-ONLINE-TRAINING-728-X-90-300x37.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 729px) 100vw, 729px\" \/><\/a><\/p><br \/><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Listen to the article 7 min This audio is auto-generated. Please let us know if you have feedback. There\u2019s no doubt that the hey-day of [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":15945,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-15944","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-technology"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15944","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=15944"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15944\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/15945"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=15944"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=15944"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/dmsretail.com\/RetailNews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=15944"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}